Elkins ([info]skelkins) wrote,
@ 2006-08-20 14:25:00
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Entry tags:2006: 08, cmc, vox

Vox
Okay, so now I have a Vox account. I admit that I got it primarily because I wanted to reserve 'Elkins,' a name that tends to go fast. (I didn't manage to snag it on Livejournal, nor on Gmail, so I thought that I'd better hustle if I wanted to reserve it on Vox.) 'Skelkins' isn't the worst username in the world, I suppose, but it always reminds me of Skeletor, and honestly, if I'm going to be associated with some 1980s cartoon villain, I'd much rather it be Cobra Commander.



I realize that this system is still in beta, but I'm already finding myself hoping that people won't wind up migrating over there from LJ. I don't think that I like it very much. For one thing, every last page on the entire damned site gives me a horizontal scroll-bar. Fixed width? Fixed width that averages at over twenty words of text a line? What kind of crappy web design is that? Furthermore, there's no way to modify even my own blog to make it suitable for viewing on my equipment. Do you have any idea how tiny and unreadable everything becomes for me if I turn my screen resolution up above 800 x 600? Have mercy, Six Apart! Some of us are both old and poor!

I'm not too fond of the rigidity of the site overall. I've become accustomed to having some ability to customize things [1], but it seems that there's very little on Vox that the users are allowed to tinker with. I'm hoping that perhaps that's something they intend to address once the system is out of beta: if nothing else, it would be really nice to be able to apply personalized CSS sheets to the layouts.

The text editor is also rather a nuisance. It doesn't accept HTML. At all. Instead, there are these cute little buttons that you're supposed to click on to do various things. This is extremely annoying. For one thing, like most so-called "user friendly" systems, it's totally counter-intuitive (why do computer nerds always assume that we Luddites will find pressing random buttons an easier way to accomplish things than typing? Using a keyboard is not an obscure skill! Really! It's not!). For another, it means that I can't type something up in Notepad ahead of time and then just cut'n'paste it into the little box, because there's no way for me to do the mark-up off-site. Of course, some might say that this is all for the best—I do tend to go overboard with my italics—but it's still a right pain in the ass.

Also—and I do know how very petty this sounds—I just fucking hate the word 'blog.' Always have, and at this point, I'm beginning to suspect that I always will.

The photo hosting looks pretty nifty, though, as does some of the multi-media stuff. And I think that the "Collections" function, which allows you to associate a group of items of diverse media (posts, images, books, sound files, video), is very cool. It seems to me that it would be an ideal way to put together an on-line travelogue, or a running account of any long-term project with a heavy visual or multimedia element. I also appreciate how easy they've made it to insert images into posts: unlike basic HTML tags, inserting images into text in a way that looks halfway decent is actually not easy coding for Luddites to learn, so the WYSIWYG editor does seem like a real improvement there.

I also like the ability to call up all recent posts on the system which have been assigned a particular tag. That's how tagging really ought to work on a closed system. Sadly, I suspect that if Vox ever becomes as enormous as Livejournal, it will quickly become too unwieldy to be of much practical use, just like Technorati and del.icio.us have become.

Finally, I think that the comments system is a fantastic improvement over Livejournal's. It is, in fact, everything that I've always wanted LJ's comments to be. Not only does the blog sidebar have a "Recent Comments" section, but you can also keep an eye on all threads on which you have yourself commented throughout the site. Once you have commented on someone else's blog, you are provided with a list of all subsequent comments to that same item, allowing you to follow the conversation. That's precisely the feature that I've always wanted to see on Livejournal, not least of which because it does away with the hideous redundancies of LJ's threading system. Now if only they built in email notifications to that particular feature, Vox's commenting system would be just about perfect, IMO.

Anyway, I have no idea what, if anything, I might end up using the Vox account for, but at least now I've staked my claim.


1 Which reminds me. I hate this journal's layout. I think I shall do something with it, and in the meantime revert to plain, nice soothing Refried Paper. [back]




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[info]straussmonster
2006-08-20 09:48 pm UTC (link)
So I take it you're totally on the Cobra Commander side of things if he got into a deathmatch with Skeletor? Is this vintage G.I. Joe CC when it was Cold War, before they turned it into 'drugs are bad, kids'?

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-20 09:58 pm UTC (link)
Nah, Skeletor would totally kick Cobra Commander's ass. That's why I liked the Commander so much, really. I've a desperate fondness for weak and pathetic villains.

My memory of the GI Joe I watched, circa 1985 or so, was that it was mainly "Terrorism is bad, mmmmkay?" I guess that must have been the Cold War era: I seem to remember that a lot of the secondary villains had inexplicable Russian accents. Or what passed for Russian accents on shitty kids' cartoons, anyway.

Knowing is half the battle!

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[info]straussmonster
2006-08-20 10:01 pm UTC (link)
...now you're making me want to go back and watch both of these shows again, but I must resist the temptation. 80's cartoons never live up to your fond memories of them when you dredge them back up into the light of day, unless you're really, really drunk at the time.

My favorite recent thing with Skeletor is that something at Something Awful photoshopped him into giving a military press conference instead of Rumsfeld, and it made so much more sense.

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-20 10:23 pm UTC (link)
Since all of my '80s cartoon-watching was done as an undergrad in the dorm lounge, I was nearly always seeing them in some state of fucked-upness anyway. So probably if I wanted to return to them now, I'd have to consume quite a bit of alcohol first just to get the proper nostalgic buzz!

These days, when I think of Skeletor, I mainly think of Scorpius from Farscape. When we watched the show on DVD, one of my friends couldn't be bothered to remember any of the characters' names, and so he just called them all by their archetype instead. It sort of...stuck. So now Scorpius will always be Skeletor to me.

Then, I seem to remember that same friend was the one who used to go on and on about his overwhelming lust for The Countess on GI Joe back when we were in college together. We used to give each other action figures all the time. I don't think I want to know what he did with the Countess action figure I gave him...

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[info]umbo
2006-08-20 09:50 pm UTC (link)
I have so far refused to get an account on Vox, Journalfen, GreatestJournal, or any other site. Until someone can prove to me that there's a site that's *better* than LJ, LJ is where I'm staying. And, well, if I could get "umbo" six months ago on LJ, I doubt it's taken many other places, you know? I took a good six months to decide on "umbo" when I made the switch (I used to be "shellmidwife"), but the longer I've had it, the more I like it.

Um. Anyway. I might be just a little bit ticked off by the constant push to get extra journals on other services, or to have more than one LJ for different aspects of your life, or whatever. I wish everyone would just have one LJ and stick to that, so there ;-)

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-20 10:17 pm UTC (link)
Even though I'm being an offender myself right now, I do know what you mean. :) Part of my problem with "journalling services" in general is that they don't allow non-members to comment as anything other than the generic "anonymous," and I find that really annoying. I don't see why they can't just code so that it's possible to at least enter in a "Guest Name," like you can with forum software, as well as with all of the independent blogging software.

I don't really like having to check all of those different sites either. I don't have the same problem with "different LJs for different purposes," though. At least you can still read them all in one place, if you friend them all. And sometimes I honestly appreciate a bit of compartmentalization, like if someone's taken to writing multiple drabbles each day for a fandom that I neither know nor care anything about, while still also updating about their personal life, which I do care about. Of course I can just skip over posts on subjects that don't interest me, but I sometimes find it a little bit guilt-inducing to do that. Compartmentalization can take some of the edge off there.

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[info]sageofgodalming
2006-08-20 10:13 pm UTC (link)
Is there some special reason to be interested in Vox? I see it's Six Apart so is there some presumption - or fear - that it will develop at the expense of LJ?

I'm already put off by the lack of information when you click on 'learn more' ("It's hott!") and by the idea of asking for an invitation.

I know it's no different from signing up really, but anything that tries to create the image of being an in-crowd that you need to get invited to just puts me off. As if I'm to be *especially* indebted to them for extending me the rare privilege of joining their elite group. Give me a break.

LJ's threading system: you mean you prefer all comments to a post simply to appear chronologically, as at Alas? That does demand a bit more discipline from commenters, as one tends to get the same sort of confusion that appears in chat rooms, where A and B comment, C replies to A but B assumes it's aimed at them and fires testily back at C, causing A to feel attacked...

I stumbled across some site the other day that supposedly allows users of different IM systems to communicate. I guess something similar for, um, online journalling would be nice, or is that what RSS is supposed to achieve? Then your aggregator would just gather up journals from blogspot, LJ, and all the rest, and you could just use your favoured one and ignore all the others.

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-20 11:05 pm UTC (link)
I think the interest in Vox comes down to three things:

1. It's new, so there's a lot of neophilic bandwagon-jumping going on, just as there was with Gmail back when that was a new service.

2. There's some fear that maybe people will decide they like Vox better and therefore all start journalling over there, rather than here, so people want to lay claim to their preferred usernames just in case that happens.

3. As with Livejournal, you can't leave a named comment on someone else's post unless you're a member, so people likely want to maintain an account there just for commenting purposes. (It's the same reason that I have accounts at both Journalfen and Blogger, even though I don't use the blogs which came with those accounts for anything at all.)

I know it's no different from signing up really, but anything that tries to create the image of being an in-crowd that you need to get invited to just puts me off.

That rubs my fur the wrong way as well. It's in fact one of the reasons that I never got an LJ account until LJ did away with the entire invite system, even though I'd been offered invites before then.

The fact that you can get an invite to Vox just by asking them to send you one--which is what I did--does someone alleviate my ruffled fur. I agree, though, that the image they seem to be trying to project is pretty gross. I had exactly the same reaction that you did when I first tried to find out what the service even was, only to get a lot of "so cool and new!" marketting pap. There's a lot of that sort of gush on the actual site as well: if you try to follow the system account so that you can learn about updates to the actual features, you're forced to endure a terrific amount of self-congratulatory hype on the part of the administrators. It's quite annoying.

LJ's threading system: you mean you prefer all comments to a post simply to appear chronologically, as at Alas?

Yes. I do prefer it that way. Although I can see the advantage to threaded comments, I dislike the repetition that they always seem to foster. I much prefer it when people combine their responses, like they do on forums (or on HPfGU). It's purely a matter of personal preference, of course, but to my mind, it just makes the conversations cohere better, which I find far more enjoyable. Although it does raise its own problems at times - like the ones you've observed on Alas.

I guess something similar for, um, online journalling would be nice, or is that what RSS is supposed to achieve?

Yes, I think that's what RSS is good for. With an aggregator like Bloglines (no point in trying to avoid the word, really, is there? One can't even avoid its derivatives these days!), you can gather up all of your various journals, blogs, forums, etc. for reading in one place.

Of course, though, if you want to comment on some of those things, then you're still often stuck with the need for membership in a number of different services. Bah!

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[info]sageofgodalming
2006-08-21 10:04 am UTC (link)
Thank you.

It has never occurred to me to care enough about my username to pre-empt it.

It's new, so there's a lot of neophilic bandwagon-jumping going on

Gah. Why is 'it's new, so nobody has heard of it or cares' not more accurate? I hate having to expend energy just to stay in the same place in terms of fashion.

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[info]sistermagpie
2006-08-20 10:22 pm UTC (link)
I staked my claim over there, though as of yet I haven't really explored it enough to figure out how much I like it. So far all I noted was the things I didn't like--which is typical for me. I hate change! But we'll see if I ever get more used to it.

Also, I hate the word blog too.

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[info]lordsmerf
2006-08-20 11:30 pm UTC (link)
Let this serve as your first and only warning: you are supposed to point me at new community-management systems as soon as you hear about them... What's with me only hearing about Vox now?

The user/anonymous only options are, like threaded comments, a tough call. The advantage of doing it the way that LJ does is that you can know who you're talking to. You either comment anonymously, or you have a secured identity.

If you do something that many mobile blogging programs (like WordPress or Blogger or MoveableType) do, which is allow users to comment with a username, with a typed name, or anonymously, then you run the risk of people building an identity by simply typing their name, and then having other people come along and 'impersonate' them.

While I'd like to think that we're all mature adults, and that that kind of stuff doesn't really need to be defended against, but I'm not completely blind.

In other, slightly related, news: I'm finding WordPress to be ridiculously powerful. I think the only thing that prevents it from kicking LiveJournal to the ground and taking its lunch money, is integration. WordPress has all the great features, plus plug-ins, and super-flexible RSS feeds. It just doesn't have an integrated reader or pictures or community-management.

But I'm going to fix that. Which is fun!

Thomas

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-21 03:28 am UTC (link)
I assumed that given your interest in on-line community software, you would already have heard of it!

But noted. In future, I will make sure to check first before I just assume such things.

The user/anonymous only options are, like threaded comments, a tough call.

I guess they are. With independent blogging programs like Wordpress, things are sufficiently decentralized for each administrator to make judgment calls on a moment-to-moment basis. If you've started out allowing the full range of commenting (truly anonymous, non-member-but-named, and registered user), but then see that people have started pulling hijinks with spoofing, then you always have the option of changing the settings to require registration before posting. The big shared "systems" don't have that same sort of flexibility, so I guess it makes sense that they tend to err on the side of caution.

Wordpress kicks some serious butt, I quite agree! Although I use Movable Type for things on my own site (mainly because they're static archives, for which MT serves as a very nice pared-down content management system), I think that Wordpress is by far the best of the independent blogging software packages. And it's open source, too!

I'm not sure if I'd identify the lack of integration as the primary arena where Livejournal beats it, though (even though that community aspect is certainly the main reason that I'm here). I think that I'd give that honor to the $$$ factor. You need a domain and a hosting company (or your own server) which allows for the use of MYSQL and PHP to run Wordpress, or any of the other mobile blogging programs. Those things cost money--a lot less money than they used to, admittedly, but money nonetheless. They also require some degree of computer literacy, especially if you want to take advantage of the full power and flexibility of the programs by making use of all of the nifty add-ons and hacks.

Livejournal, on the other hand, is completely free. And it really doesn't take very much computer knowledge at all to set up a basic journal on it. I think that's really the main reason that "journalling systems" like Blogspot and LJ (and now Vox) are so appealing: they're both relatively easy and absolutely free.

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[info]lordsmerf
2006-08-21 03:59 am UTC (link)
Ah, but that's what WordPress.com is for! Of course it doesn't handle all the lovely plug-ins, which is too bad. But my point is that WordPress is available to everyone, but it's not a one-stop shop the way LiveJournal is. If I really want to keep up with all my WordPress friends, I've got to have a third-party aggregator.

If I had my druthers, there'd be some sort of multi-user WordPress system that integrates something like Feed on Feeds: Redux with it. Stack email notification with the aggregator, and possibly a drag-and-drop per-discussion feed reader, and you've got something super-portable and super-flexible.

Man, I love talking about this stuff :)

Oh, and I owe you an email from, like, a month ago. Don't think I've forgotten, because I haven't!

Thomas

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[info]alpheratz
2006-08-20 11:53 pm UTC (link)
You know why I hate Vox? It let me sign up, and several days later, refused to let me log in. And when I do the forgotten password thing, it tells me my email address isn't in the system. And there is no support email address anywhere on the site. I want to kill them all.

I am mizar there, btw. I'd friend you if I could, but I'm too busy seething.

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-21 03:44 am UTC (link)
How incredibly irritating! Yeah, a site that doesn't provide a support email address really doesn't inspire confidence.

For what it's worth, though, I just went and tried to find you there, and I could find no mizar at all! (I did find a mizarc, but I didn't get the impression that it was you.) So maybe your entire registration just somehow didn't "take," and that's why your e-mail address isn't on record with them?

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[info]alpheratz
2006-08-21 03:46 am UTC (link)
No, I am here. Can you see that page? And I even got all the invites and confirmation emails and all the crap you get when you sign up for the service. There's no way they don't have my email.

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-21 03:52 am UTC (link)
Okay, that's really weird. Because yes, I see you, you're there, you exist. It even let me add you. And yet, when I go into the "connect" menu, which is how you're invited to look people up on the site, and I type "mizar" into the search window, it only pulls up this 'mizarc' person. This makes me wonder if perhaps there was some database glitch somewhere along the line.

Hrmmm. Did you get an e-mail notification when I added you?

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[info]alpheratz
2006-08-21 03:56 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I did. And, wow, okay, I see what you mean about the search. Grr. Release the hounds!

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-21 03:57 am UTC (link)
Oh. No, never mind, I see. If you want to look someone up by username, rather than by name, you have to type the entire URL into the window.

That. Is. STUPID.

In that case, I have no idea why it's not letting you request a password. I will simply seethe in seething sympathy.

::seethes::

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[info]happy_potterer
2006-08-21 04:14 pm UTC (link)
I also like non-threaded comments, because it seems to encourage people to talk to each other rather than just to the author, or just to one other commenter. Numbered comments are especially handy (though as a recent post of sageofgodalming's illustrates, they're a Bad Thing if they're set up so that deleting a comment causes all the subsequent comments to change numbers. Honestly, do they even beta-test these things?!). The ideal would be to be able to see them either way, like on Yahoogroups.

I have been trying to decide on a good blogging software, but I can't do anything with it until I think of a snazzy name.

"Skelkins" always makes me think "skulkin'" and laugh.

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[info]skelkins
2006-08-21 07:51 pm UTC (link)
Oooh. I'd read an Amy blog! Be sure to let us know when and if you set one up.

Wordpress, the program that Thomas and I discuss up above, is very good, and there are many incredibly helpful and kindly programmers hanging out on the forums at their site who are willing to answer questions and otherwise help out. (It's the one that Barry uses for Alas, if that helps at all.)

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